環迴喇叭 Surround Speaker - Monopole, Dipole, Tripole ?

[Psychoav]

I have tried Monopole, Dipole & Tripole for my home system.

My home is symmetric rectangular with 4 equal side & back walls.

....

symmetric rectangular
you're so lucky man

[Raymond Wan]

I am wondering on this too as some members said back surround should be Direct firing other than Dipole or Tripole so I have no surround or back surround yet but only the 3 pcs at front
Raymond hing,do u know what is the proper distance for the back surrround to King seat?is it same as front?

If you have walls on side & back, better use dipole or tripole surround for movie.

However, if you do not have the walls for reflection, then better use the monopole or tripole.



The placement of the back surround is usually at middle of the FL and C as well as between C and FR.

Anyway, if your AV Amp has the control on ASA (Advanced Speaker Array) for the back surround. You can set to match the placement.

thank you Raymond hing
我就跟thx擺因為諗住mk s150有認正.衣加頭痕back surround放bin個位同埋用mug?米路就話用曬ss150但貴左d所以諗緊用低一級duck吾duck

I believe you need to fix the position of your "King Seat" first.

The "King Seat" is depending on the screen size and your best viewing distance.

For S150, there is no need to follow exactly the suggested angle by THX.

What you need to do is adjust the toe-in angle (FL & FR) and tilt-up angle (C) of the S150 such that the centre of speaker is pointing toward your fore head near ear level.

Once you fixed the "King Seat", determine the position of the SL & SR (90 ~ 110 degree).

At last, place the SBL & SBR at appropriate locations to suit.

I assume you have already had a pair of SS150 for SL & SR, there is no need to use SS150 for SBL & SBR if your budget is tight.

Although it is perfect to use SS150 as all the tweeters and woofers are the same for the entire system, you can still use slightly lower class to complete the Surround Back channels.

The Surround at side walls is more important than the Back Surround.

If setting properly, some home theatre with 5.1 is already very good.

You will get even better results with the addition 2 back surround speakers for 7.1 system.

Finally, calibrate the input level of each speaker with sound level meter and the speaker distance accordingly.

[fr9508]

I am wondering on this too as some members said back surround should be Direct firing other than Dipole or Tripole so I have no surround or back surround yet but only the 3 pcs at front
Raymond hing,do u know what is the proper distance for the back surrround to King seat?is it same as front?

If you have walls on side & back, better use dipole or tripole surround for movie.

However, if you do not have the walls for reflection, then better use the monopole or tripole.



The placement of the back surround is usually at middle of the FL and C as well as between C and FR.

Anyway, if your AV Amp has the control on ASA (Advanced Speaker Array) for the back surround. You can set to match the placement.

thank you Raymond hing
我就跟thx擺因為諗住mk s150有認正.衣加頭痕back surround放bin個位同埋用mug?米路就話用曬ss150但貴左d所以諗緊用低一級duck吾duck

I believe you need to fix the position of your "King Seat" first.

The "King Seat" is depending on the screen size and your best viewing distance.

For S150, there is no need to follow exactly the suggested angle by THX.

What you need to do is adjust the toe-in angle (FL & FR) and tilt-up angle (C) of the S150 such that the centre of speaker is pointing toward your fore head near ear level.

Once you fixed the "King Seat", determine the position of the SL & SR (90 ~ 110 degree).

At last, place the SBL & SBR at appropriate locations to suit.

I assume you have already had a pair of SS150 for SL & SR, there is no need to use SS150 for SBL & SBR if your budget is tight.

Although it is perfect to use SS150 as all the tweeters and woofers are the same for the entire system, you can still use slightly lower class to complete the Surround Back channels.

The Surround at side walls is more important than the Back Surround.

If setting properly, some home theatre with 5.1 is already very good.

You will get even better results with the addition 2 back surround speakers for 7.1 system.

Finally, calibrate the input level of each speaker with sound level meter and the speaker distance accordingly.

What I am worry on BS option A is too far away as they are almost 4M away to king seat 1,what so u think?I am using 100" screen recently and I haven't buy SS150 yet either for surround or back surround as I am still puzzle on which lower grade model for BS.

[Raymond Wan]

What I am worry on BS option A is too far away as they are almost 4M away to king seat 1,what so u think?I am using 100" screen recently and I haven't buy SS150 yet either for surround or back surround as I am still puzzle on which lower grade model for BS.

If you have the screen of 100", I believe your King Seat 1 should be the preferred position for both sound and picture.

Hence, the BS Option B should be the preferred location as the BS Option A is comparatively too far away.

You may still fix the Back Surround at BS Option A but you need to use a more powerful speaker.

Therefore, I suggest you use a better pair of Surround speaker at side walls first.

Make wiring provision of BS at Option B and install an average class speaker for Back Surround.

Once you have more spare money, you can always upgrade to the final high class speaker for the Back.

[fr9508]

What I am worry on BS option A is too far away as they are almost 4M away to king seat 1,what so u think?I am using 100" screen recently and I haven't buy SS150 yet either for surround or back surround as I am still puzzle on which lower grade model for BS.

If you have the screen of 100", I believe your King Seat 1 should be the preferred position for both sound and picture.

Hence, the BS Option B should be the preferred location as the BS Option A is comparatively too far away.

You may still fix the Back Surround at BS Option A but you need to use a more powerful speaker.

Therefore, I suggest you use a better pair of Surround speaker at side walls first.

Make wiring provision of BS at Option B and install an average class speaker for Back Surround.

Once you have more spare money, you can always upgrade to the final high class speaker for the Back.

That's true as I have too many speakers recently or I can use the pair of JBL 4301 as BS first.Thanks again Raymond hing

[Raymond Wan]

Tripole(三極唔係三向喎)係唔係得M&K同B&W先有?

Monopole = "單極" 或 "正極"

Bipole = "雙極" --> " + " & " + "

Dipole = "雙偶極" --> " + " & " - "

Tripole = Dipole + Monopole = "雙偶極" + "單極" (是 M&K 的專利設計)





According to M&K, for Tripole, when “surround sound” was called for, the dipoles moved to front stage.

When a soundtrack demanded pinpoint accuracy, the direct radiators kicked in.

As movie scenes panned from back to front, there was good timbre matching with the Tripoles and front speakers, as high frequencies were right on, due in part to the direct radiators.

One of the downsides to using a dipole or bipole is some high frequency information is lost because of the 90° angle created by the speaker and listening position.

Using Tripoles will eliminate the potential problems of dipole & bipole.



Although Tripole seems to be perfect, some people still prefer to use monopole or dipole or bipole or combinations.

The choice is depending the taste of individual.

Try them out to see which type or combination suits you best.

請問下B&W係唔係只有兩偶極?無三極?

Monopole --> 單向發聲
Dipole/Bipole --> 雙向發聲
Tripole --> 三向發聲 (M&K 專利設計)



I do not familiar with B&W speakers but they do not have Tripole for sure.

Anyway, I have checked for you some of the B&W surround speakers.

I understand the B&W DS8S, DS7 & DS3 are selectable dipole "雙偶極" or monopole "單極" surround speakers.

In monopole mode (direct), they are 2-way system using drivers mounted on the front of the cabinet.

In dipole mode (diffuse), the front tweeter is switched off and the side firing midrange/tweeter units come into play.
The front main driver acting only as a bass unit.

All other B&W speakers to be used as surround are monopole.

You can check the details yourself.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=769

[ryanenen]

A good topic. Thanks sharing, Raymond hing.

For me, I tried dipoles and bipoles which are not good to my listening room. I'm going to try monopole. The Book always said that all speakers should be the same size and model. It is true for the front 3 speakers but I've reservation about the side surrounds and back surrounds. Mostly the 4 surrounds are creating atmosphere or back ground music during movie time. Its rare to have great sound impact at the back, may be sometimes an air plane fly from back to front. Would it be a waste to use expensive front speakers as the 4 surround?

[Raymond Wan]

A good topic. Thanks sharing, Raymond hing.

For me, I tried dipoles and bipoles which are not good to my listening room. I'm going to try monopole. The Book always said that all speakers should be the same size and model. It is true for the front 3 speakers but I've reservation about the side surrounds and back surrounds. Mostly the 4 surrounds are creating atmosphere or back ground music during movie time. Its rare to have great sound impact at the back, may be sometimes an air plane fly from back to front. Would it be a waste to use expensive front speakers as the 4 surround?

I just want to share some relevant AV information with little efforts.

I hope the above illustrations on surround speakers can simulate some thoughts and may be useful to some brothers.



As I have mentioned above, dipole and bipole surround speakers may not be able to provide good results if your environment do not have walls to reflect or too many absorption materials around. Or simply you do not meet your taste on diffused sounds.

Hence, monopole speakers may be better than dipole or bipole as they are direct radiation.

There are always pros & cons of each speaker type for surround, you may need to consider before selection and try them out to confirm.

It's a pity that there is no simple Fixed Rule.



For the front speakers, they are preferred to be the same model (i.e. identical speakers).

At least, they should be from the same manufacturer of same series with same or similar tweeter and woofer units / drivers.

Since the majority sound are from the front, the front speakers are more important than the surround speakers.

Having said that, if you demand for tonal balance and smooth transition of effects from front to side to back and so forth, you should use similar tweeter and woofer units of the front speakers for the surround speakers.

Some serious AV users actually use 7 identical speakers for their home theatre.

Although mixing the surround speakers with other brands will also be O.K. sometimes, they are usually not the best combo and always reserve potential room for improvement.



I would suggest, if possible, using same brand of speakers for the front as well as the surround. This will at least minimise the serious difference on sound characteristics between main front and surrounds.

[laputa]

我想搭單問問題及求賜教, 我組合上有幾個問題.

1. 拾烏化個位置, 只有隆...隆....聲, 搬出d, 好d, 不過效果都係吾理想! 我應搵邊個位估計效果有改善呢?

2. 後置(單向)貼牆, 向皇帝位還是向前置會有好d包圍感好d呢? 我只係用喇叭腳托後置, 吾係掛牆!

3. 如果想改善後置效果, 換bipole定換dipole後置好d? 擺放方向又如何擺呢?

[fr9508]

good tool to measure the angle of speakers

[Raymond Wan]

我想搭單問問題及求賜教, 我組合上有幾個問題.

1. 拾烏化個位置, 只有隆...隆....聲, 搬出d, 好d, 不過效果都係吾理想! 我應搵邊個位估計效果有改善呢?

2. 後置(單向)貼牆, 向皇帝位還是向前置會有好d包圍感好d呢? 我只係用喇叭腳托後置, 吾係掛牆!

3. 如果想改善後置效果, 換bipole定換dipole後置好d? 擺放方向又如何擺呢?

試試解答:

1. 要搵邊個位有机會改善拾烏化效果
(a)搬開梳化，把拾烏化放於皇帝位的位置地上
(b)播一段低頻測試訊號 (Test Tone) 30Hz ~50Hz 或低頻多的 Blu-ray / DVD / CD
(c)扒在地上，慢慢在家四周爬行，至小要圍繞整個廳，去聽及感受那幾個位置低頻較多及強勁
(d)從那些低頻較多及最強的位置中，找一個適當位置，把拾烏化放於那處
(e)當你坐在皇帝位時，理應將會聽到及感受到最多低頻，也即是搵到最佳可放拾烏化的位置
(f)再用 Sound Level Meter 去量度及微調 Input Level、Crossover、Phase、 .... 等

2. 環迴最好放在皇帝位左右側牆上，離耳高2呎以上。只係用喇叭腳托環迴，還是面向皇帝位較佳。

3. 你有前後2牆，可用 Monopole 或 Dipole。
一般用 Dipole 包圍感好D，用 Monopole 則定位稍準確，視乎你個人喜好。
但你的環迴，放於極近後牆，故 Monopole 可能較合理。

[Snoopy]

1. 要搵邊個位有机會改善拾烏化效果
(a)搬開梳化，把拾烏化放於皇帝位的位置地上
(b)播一段低頻測試訊號 (Test Tone) 30Hz ~50Hz 或低頻多的 Blu-ray / DVD / CD
(c)扒在地上，慢慢在家四周爬行，至小要圍繞整個廳，去聽及感受那幾個位置低頻較多及強勁
(d)從那些低頻較多及最強的位置中，找一個適當位置，把拾烏化放於那處
(e)當你坐在皇帝位時，理應將會聽到及感受到最多低頻，也即是搵到最佳可放拾烏化的位置
(f)再用 Sound Level Meter 去量度及微調 Input Level、Crossover、Phase、 .... 等

raymond 你有 4 隻 sub-woofer, 你咪要爬行 4 次!

[Raymond Wan]

1. 要搵邊個位有机會改善拾烏化效果
(a)搬開梳化，把拾烏化放於皇帝位的位置地上
(b)播一段低頻測試訊號 (Test Tone) 30Hz ~50Hz 或低頻多的 Blu-ray / DVD / CD
(c)扒在地上，慢慢在家四周爬行，至小要圍繞整個廳，去聽及感受那幾個位置低頻較多及強勁
(d)從那些低頻較多及最強的位置中，找一個適當位置，把拾烏化放於那處
(e)當你坐在皇帝位時，理應將會聽到及感受到最多低頻，也即是搵到最佳可放拾烏化的位置
(f)再用 Sound Level Meter 去量度及微調 Input Level、Crossover、Phase、 .... 等

raymond 你有 4 隻 sub-woofer, 你咪要爬行 4 次!

[Romrom-100Fun]

1. 要搵邊個位有机會改善拾烏化效果
(a)搬開梳化，把拾烏化放於皇帝位的位置地上
(b)播一段低頻測試訊號 (Test Tone) 30Hz ~50Hz 或低頻多的 Blu-ray / DVD / CD
(c)扒在地上，慢慢在家四周爬行，至小要圍繞整個廳，去聽及感受那幾個位置低頻較多及強勁
(d)從那些低頻較多及最強的位置中，找一個適當位置，把拾烏化放於那處
(e)當你坐在皇帝位時，理應將會聽到及感受到最多低頻，也即是搵到最佳可放拾烏化的位置
(f)再用 Sound Level Meter 去量度及微調 Input Level、Crossover、Phase、 .... 等

raymond 你有 4 隻 sub-woofer, 你咪要爬行 4 次!

人“溺”低音论！！！？？？